Does F-Secure protect against NSA intrusion?


Hiya All,

Does F-Secure protect against NSA intrusion?


It look like a paranoid question, but due to the recent "scandals" caused by this organization and other revelations about commercial software providers (Microsoft etc.) working with this organization, it seems a valid one.


Just wondering,

Have a good 1,



  • NikK
    NikK Posts: 903 Forum Champion

    I consider myself a bit paranoid and use layered protection for example, but how can any product protect from that?!

    I discussed it recently and the easiest solution is to avoid US based services like live/hotmail, gmail/google etc.

    So get a new email account and switch from bing and google to

    Looking forward for more replies.

  • Rusli
    Rusli Posts: 1,019 Influencer



    Does F-Secure protect against NSA intrusion???


    The answer is NO. It's antivirus companies and it only protect you from Viruses infections.


    I'm not a technical expertise in this field. Nor I am a political science student. Nor a conspiracy theory!


    You need to have Fox Mulder and Dana Scully to elaborate on the subjects.


    It's like David Golaith thing you know.


    Did you know what is Electronic Harassment is?




    However every one needs enlightenment. Not by the ILLUMINATI secret societies groupies!


    If you are talking about the NSA. They are cyrptographers and eavesdropper to your computer and phone by electronic means. This have been on going since the era of ENIAC super computers. They are heavily armed with Cray Super Computers. For Electronic Survilllence.


    If you watch the movie "Enemy of the state". Can you recall what Gene Hackman says about it. And it's real!



    The project Echelon is clearly being use by the NSA. And any intelligence source. Anything you talk on the phone on "Bombs" or anything that associate with the Middle East or anyone that says "Allah"  or anything associate with Crimes and Terrorist activities will be track down by the NSA. Or any source of Intelligence. Even the GCHQ! Because every countries have Intelligence.



    Pertaining to the NSA Prism, what Edward Snowden is more of awareness that of being watch.




    I'm not well aware of the technical know how on NSA Prism works. But every one reads a copy of this site.



    Did you know about the NSAKEY that found in Windows.



    From what I gathered not even APPLE MAC OS X (Don't ever think that Apple MAC is secure) and Windows cannot protect you with NSA Prism. Because of their involvement, every one in this world will be expose to their so called "Activities".



    Even the so called DIGINOTAR case.



    Even a APPLE MAC OS X is backdoor by the NSA Prism. That goes the same to Windows! Aren't they involve in this so called "INFORMATION GATHERING"?


    If you think that APPLE is secure(which I don't think so) , did you know that your iPHONE and iPAD can be track down???



    That goes the same to any smart phones with GPS enable.You name it. Even Android!


    They can even Phone Tappings to your calls. If you hear many clicks. (Regardless your Home Phone network or Cell Phone) Then you are on it.


    So you need to remove your Battery of your cell phone.



    I'm not sure of the TOR network.



    Someone says that you need to use Opensource OS like Linux that using TOR network.


    So what is the most secure operating system?? It's OpenBSD!



    Well if you type ILLUMINATI in backwards dot com. Where does it lead you. To the NSA!


    The only thing that they afraid off is invasion of extra terresterial beings visiting earth. Oh that suppose to be the MIB. Not the NSA.


    Let me rephrase that, the only thing that they or every one is afraid of is the day of judgement. Not even the NSA have to time to Monitoring you when the end of days comes. LOL!


    See if they can Phone Tap that on their so called Super Surveillence. On an Extra Terresterial beings space ships. Not even the NASA or the SETI. Or the NSA can do that. The E.Ts are more superior than the NSA! In technological terms.


     Let me say something, As Long As You are law abiding citizens, there is nothing you can be afraid off. They are interested in Crooks. Every countries that you go have intelligence.


    First and foremost you've got to ask yourself. Are you involving in anything illegal??? Are you a crook??? Did you have a criminal record???


    The only place on earth that there is no spooks is the North Pole and the South Pole. Down there, there is no electronic devices laying around. There's no way they can trace you there.


    Just add a little humor guys!! Just add a little humor.



    So, whatever that is associate with The Intelligence or The NSA is real. Every one knows that right from the very begining.




    Who else is watching us besides God and Angles?? The NSA is not God. They are human beings. So don't be afraid.


    If they watching you. You know badly who is watching them. God and Angles right???  If you don't do anything wrong. Just pray to who. God. Every single day.


    Their Technology Survillence is far more superior than the NSA. Not even the NSA can do counter survillence.


    The NSA can't even Phone Tap God and Angles. Ha ha ha! Am I right to say that???


    The NSA can't even do electronic survillence on God.Because God sees everything in our path...


    So who is, or who is more Intelligence in this world?? Who brought us in this world???


    Everyone can answers that. God.


    God Faith is more important than NSA.




    The only thing that they are afraid off, is their own shadows! Believe it or not.


    They are afraid of their own Shadows.


    We are talking about human beings versus human beings.


    Out of curiousity???


    People might ask or say, isn't that what they are doing is evil???


    In my opinion, well in a way ...


    The real question is, are you in the good side or the evil side???


    That is the question that we need to ask ourselves???


    If you are in the good side, you are in Safe Haven.


    Simple as that. Common Sense say it all.


    We have to fight back the good way.


    Life is always about Good Versus EviL.


    Faith always be teaching us about Good. So Faith is more important than the NSA! Or the NSA Prism.


    God is far more Technologically Advance than the NSA!


    It bring us back to the point when we first start.


    Our Life is more important than the NSA.


     Why can't we live a simple life??


    If you don't do anything wrong.


    You've got the legal right to Fight Back!



    So Am I right to say that all along??? 




    So don't worry too much on the NSA. NSA Prism.


    These people are human beings. And so are you.


    The only thing that I can think off is we go about our daily life.


    Life is more important than them.



    If you want a secure network then use TOR. If you want a secure Operating System. DO NOT use MAC OS X and Windows.

    (most likely involve in Prism)

    Use OpenBSD.


    Or Linux. Or FreeBSD.


    Or Solaris!




    Quote:" We or All of Us Live in this world temporary! Nobody can live forever in this world. Not even in a million years!"





  • Rusli
    Rusli Posts: 1,019 Influencer

    I still believe that the NSA thing going around, got to do during the 9/11. And it is done by the Bush Administration. And I don't think it got to do with Obama.


    For 8 years during the 9/11. Who is the president of united states??


    Bush. Not Obama.


    Obama comes right after 8 years of Bush Administration.


    Global Economic Downturn also got to do with Bush Administration. Right???


    During the Iraq war, the Bush Administration and the Israel  plan on attack on Iran with Stuxnet virus.


    So where the Stuxnet virus comes from???




    The Bush Administration and The Israel.


    See Mikko Hypponnen Video here about Stuxnet.






    If you go to this site. It will lead to the NSA.



    So how come this become a conspiracy theory?



    Quote:"The X-Files:- The Truth is out there!"


    Yeah the whole planet knows about your Roswell EBE-1 name Jarod and under captivity at Area 51! Every one in the planet knows that! You hire them to reverse engineer to create a UFO technology at Area 51 & Area 52 bunker.


    God knows every one knows the fact.


    Ever heard???


    "In God we trust"??? Where that comes from???




  • NikK
    NikK Posts: 903 Forum Champion

    Interesting reading there Rusli!

    Regarding the NSAKEY and Windows:


    I think one important thing you can do is to use outbound firewall filtering. In Windows Vista and later the Inbound FW is great, but for outbound it allows everything by default. The big problem with blocking oubound connections is to know what programs to allow. This is especially difficult when it comes to Windows internal programs that connects to the Internet, which it does a lot!

    Fortunately there are programs to make this much easier, for example BiniSoft's Windows Firewall Control (which I use myself).

  • Rusli
    Rusli Posts: 1,019 Influencer

    Well, what  I could say is that these people are known as the codebreakers.


    They are well verse with any encryption technologies.


    They even have mathematicians to do codebreakings.


    And one thing for sure, that any form of anti virus cannot protect any intrusion from the NSA.


    F-Secure Internet Security 2014 cannot protect that fully. Not even deep guard. If Deep Guard can do that, then it far more perfect to detect any intrusion.


    The F-Secure Internet Security Firewall cannot protect any form of attacks. It is because F-Secure is using Windows Own Integrated Firewall.


    So there is NO protection at all to invade the  NSA.


    PPTP, L2TP can be penetrate by exploits.


    Windows, Macs are easily target for  Backdoor! Mac have poor security updates. That's for sure.



    Here is a good steps to secure your computer.



    NSA surveillance: A guide to staying secure

    The NSA has huge capabilities – and if it wants in to your computer, it's in. With that in mind, here are five ways to stay safe
    Explaining the latest NSA revelations – Q&A

    Now that we have enough details about how the NSA eavesdrops on the internet, including today's disclosures of the NSA's deliberate weakening of cryptographic systems, we can finally start to figure out how to protect ourselves.

    For the past two weeks, I have been working with the Guardian on NSA stories, and have read hundreds of top-secret NSA documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden. I wasn't part of today's story – it was in process well before I showed up – but everything I read confirms what the Guardian is reporting.

    At this point, I feel I can provide some advice for keeping secure against such an adversary.

    The primary way the NSA eavesdrops on internet communications is in the network. That's where their capabilities best scale. They have invested in enormous programs to automatically collect and analyze network traffic.  Anything that requires them to attack individual endpoint computers is significantly more costly and risky for them, and they will do those things carefully and sparingly.

    Leveraging its secret agreements with telecommunications companies – all the US and UK ones, and many other "partners" around the world – the NSA gets access to the communications trunks that move internet traffic. In cases where it doesn't have that sort of friendly access, it does its best to surreptitiously monitor communications channels: tapping undersea cables, intercepting satellite communications, and so on.

    That's an enormous amount of data, and the NSA has equivalently enormous capabilities to quickly sift through it all, looking for interesting traffic. "Interesting" can be defined in many ways: by the source, the destination, the content, the individuals involved, and so on. This data is funneled into the vast NSA system for future analysis.

    The NSA collects much more metadata about internet traffic: who is talking to whom, when, how much, and by what mode of communication. Metadata is a lot easier to store and analyze than content. It can be extremely personal to the individual, and is enormously valuable intelligence.

    The Systems Intelligence Directorate is in charge of data collection, and the resources it devotes to this is staggering. I read status report after status report about these programs, discussing capabilities, operational details, planned upgrades, and so on. Each individual problem – recovering electronic signals from fiber, keeping up with the terabyte streams as they go by, filtering out the interesting stuff – has its own group dedicated to solving it. Its reach is global.

    The NSA also attacks network devices directly: routers, switches, firewalls, etc. Most of these devices have surveillance capabilities already built in; the trick is to surreptitiously turn them on. This is an especially fruitful avenue of attack; routers are updated less frequently, tend not to have security software installed on them, and are generally ignored as a vulnerability.

    The NSA also devotes considerable resources to attacking endpoint computers. This kind of thing is done by its TAO – Tailored Access Operations – group.  TAO has a menu of exploits it can serve up against your computer – whether you're running Windows, Mac OS, Linux, iOS, or something else – and a variety of tricks to get them on to your computer. Your anti-virus software won't detect them, and you'd have trouble finding them even if you knew where to look. These are hacker tools designed by hackers with an essentially unlimited budget. What I took away from reading the Snowden documents was that if the NSA wants in to your computer, it's in. Period.

    The NSA deals with any encrypted data it encounters more by subverting the underlying cryptography than by leveraging any secret mathematical breakthroughs. First, there's a lot of bad cryptography out there. If it finds an internet connection protected by MS-CHAP, for example, that's easy to break and recover the key. It exploits poorly chosen user passwords, using the same dictionary attacks hackers use in the unclassified world.

    As was revealed today, the NSA also works with security product vendors to ensure that commercial encryption products are broken in secret ways that only it knows about. We know this has happened historically: CryptoAG and Lotus Notes are the most public examples, and there is evidence of a back door in Windows. A few people have told me some recent stories about their experiences, and I plan to write about them soon. Basically, the NSA asks companies to subtly change their products in undetectable ways: making the random number generator less random, leaking the key somehow, adding a common exponent to a public-key exchange protocol, and so on. If the back door is discovered, it's explained away as a mistake. And as we now know, the NSA has enjoyed enormous success from this program.

    TAO also hacks into computers to recover long-term keys. So if you're running a VPN that uses a complex shared secret to protect your data and the NSA decides it cares, it might try to steal that secret. This kind of thing is only done against high-value targets.

    How do you communicate securely against such an adversary? Snowden said it in an online Q&A soon after he made his first document public: "Encryption works. Properly implemented strong crypto systems are one of the few things that you can rely on."

    I believe this is true, despite today's revelations and tantalizing hints of "groundbreaking cryptanalytic capabilities" made by James Clapper, the director of national intelligence in another top-secret document. Those capabilities involve deliberately weakening the cryptography.

    Snowden's follow-on sentence is equally important: "Unfortunately, endpoint security is so terrifically weak that NSA can frequently find ways around it."

    Endpoint means the software you're using, the computer you're using it on, and the local network you're using it in. If the NSA can modify the encryption algorithm or drop a Trojan on your computer, all the cryptography in the world doesn't matter at all. If you want to remain secure against the NSA, you need to do your best to ensure that the encryption can operate unimpeded.

    With all this in mind, I have five pieces of advice:

    1) Hide in the network. Implement hidden services. Use Tor to anonymize yourself. Yes, the NSA targets Tor users, but it's work for them. The less obvious you are, the safer you are.

    2) Encrypt your communications. Use TLS. Use IPsec. Again, while it's true that the NSA targets encrypted connections – and it may have explicit exploits against these protocols – you're much better protected than if you communicate in the clear.

    3) Assume that while your computer can be compromised, it would take work and risk on the part of the NSA – so it probably isn't. If you have something really important, use an air gap. Since I started working with the Snowden documents, I bought a new computer that has never been connected to the internet. If I want to transfer a file, I encrypt the file on the secure computer and walk it over to my internet computer, using a USB stick. To decrypt something, I reverse the process. This might not be bulletproof, but it's pretty good.

    4) Be suspicious of commercial encryption software, especially from large vendors. My guess is that most encryption products from large US companies have NSA-friendly back doors, and many foreign ones probably do as well. It's prudent to assume that foreign products also have foreign-installed backdoors. Closed-source software is easier for the NSA to backdoor than open-source software. Systems relying on master secrets are vulnerable to the NSA, through either legal or more clandestine means.

    5) Try to use public-domain encryption that has to be compatible with other implementations. For example, it's harder for the NSA to backdoor TLS than BitLocker, because any vendor's TLS has to be compatible with every other vendor's TLS, while BitLocker only has to be compatible with itself, giving the NSA a lot more freedom to make changes. And because BitLocker is proprietary, it's far less likely those changes will be discovered. Prefer symmetric cryptography over public-key cryptography. Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can.

    Since I started working with Snowden's documents, I have been using GPG, Silent Circle, Tails, OTR, TrueCrypt, BleachBit, and a few other things I'm not going to write about.  There's an undocumented encryption feature in my Password Safe program  from the command line); I've been using that as well.

    I understand that most of this is impossible for the typical internet user. Even I don't use all these tools for most everything I am working on. And I'm still primarily on Windows, unfortunately. Linux would be safer.

    The NSA has turned the fabric of the internet into a vast surveillance platform, but they are not magical. They're limited by the same economic realities as the rest of us, and our best defense is to make surveillance of us as expensive as possible.

    Trust the math. Encryption is your friend. Use it well, and do your best to ensure that nothing can compromise it. That's how you can remain secure even in the face of the NSA.

  • Rusli
    Rusli Posts: 1,019 Influencer

    Hi Nikk,


    I don't know, when I scan that wfc firewall from binisoft from norton power eraser. It's infected by viruses.



  • patet
    patet Posts: 57 Explorer

    Policy on Detecting Government Spy Programs


    F-Secure Corporation's policy on detecting spying programs developed by various governments

    In late 2001, F-Secure Corporation received various queries on our standpoint regarding the possibility of spying programs developed by various governments.

    Much of this discussion was generated by media coverage on rumored backdoor trojan known as "Magic Lantern", developed by FBI or NSA in USA. Discussion was increased as several US-based anti-virus vendors made comments implying they would on purpose leave a backdoor in their anti-virus products to allow such a spying program to work.

    Thus, F-Secure Corporation would like to make known that we will not leave such backdoors to our F-Secure Anti-Virus products, regardless of the source of such tools. We have to draw a line with every sample we get regarding whether to detect it or not. This decision-making is influenced only by technical factors, and nothing else, but within the applicable laws and regulations, in our case meaning EU laws.

    We will also be adding detection of any program we see that might be used for terrorist activity or to benefit organized crime.

    We would like to state this for the record, as we have received queries regarding whether we would have the guts to detect something obviously made by a known violent mafia or terrorist organization. Yes we would.

    F-Secure Corporation always aims to do what's best for our customers.


  • NikK
    NikK Posts: 903 Forum Champion

    Rusli, maybe you don't know, but I do Smiley Wink I am VERY careful about new programs, especially not so known ones and not digitally signed. WFC is NOT infected by viruses, it's flagged as bad which is a false-positive. Here's why:


    Norton Power Eraser says it will detect more than other virus scanning programs. Why is that? One reason is it detects more false-positives! They even state that themselves:

    "Because Norton Power Eraser uses aggressive methods to detect threats, there is a risk that it can select some legitimate programs for removal. You should use this tool very carefully."


    On my PC it detects Windows Firewall Control's 2 exe files + an exe I coded myself which certainly is not infected. But NPE says it's bad and should be removed Smiley Sad

    The reason they flag WFC as bad is:

    - FEW USERS. Fewer than 100 users in the Norton Community have used this file.
    - VERY NEW. This file was released less than 1 week ago.
    - UNPROVEN. There is not enough information about this file to recommend it.


    Now, is that a good reason to say it's bad and should be removed: NO!

    I fully agree with their statement: You should use this tool very carefully.


    Here's virustotal's analysis of WFC Setup and the 2 exe files for WFC. The GUI exe and the service exe.

    Note: Including OK status from Symantec(Norton):

    100% clean!

  • Enraged1
    Enraged1 Posts: 18 Observer

    Hiya All,

    Thanks for all the Info (and links) will try some of the warez mentioned. (just for "fun")


    Don't want to sound "b*tchy" but probably will.

    I was talking about FS (in all its forms an figures), not of changing OS/surfing/network  behavior.

    - Heard that Dark TOR is the safest, but just as "not connecting to the Internet" is the best way to keep secrets, it's not answering the question. -


    I myself went Windoze, so that I could "help" F&F's "better".

    (Wrote my own Linux NAT/Server in the early days of ADSL. The whole OS could fit on a floppy.)


    Nowadays I only use Linux (very rarely) to find "(WL) Nw parasites", using various "sniffers" etc.

    (In Linux you can change the MAC-address)



    As the scandal continues, and "all clean and clears" on certain infected systems are given (often by Fox IT).

    I'm wondering still about; "what will FS detect?".



    The post 911(2001) statement is "nice" but very outdated, for instance; since then they (FS) have removed the firewall.

    (Without any warning or choice!)

    - Forcing the NSA friendly FW from windoze upon us. (The remote help and gadget issues ) -


    Don't do conspiracy theory like the "enlightened ones" manly because it's not a secret, it would be way more "suspect" if it gave "contra or mis" information and help, like "download 'this' to protect against NSA warez" KWIM?


    Will close with an old one;

    "Just because you're paranoid that doesn't mean they're not out to get you"


    Safe Hex and have a good 1,


  • Enfcmedic384
    Enfcmedic384 Posts: 181 Enthusiast

    Here is the inate problem in that the NSA has you at day one or at the source. The best information I have found on all Security issues is Steve Gibson of Security Now from Leo Laporte's online network.  Here is the latest episode on some really good issues I absolutely love F-Secure but they please need to add an optional VPN and Firewall Component in addition to the current windows firewall because the Microsoft one is weak to be completely honest in my humble opinion.


    Nothing will truly help you against the NSA because no software is that powerful anywhere against that which they have.

  • Enfcmedic384
    Enfcmedic384 Posts: 181 Enthusiast

    TOR in fact though to my knowledge has been compromised by Law enforcment and this is and should be well known by now as per online articles and Gibson the TOR network is compromised from the code level up. We can rule that out as an option.

This discussion has been closed.
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